Julie Zerbo is the founder and editor of The Fashion Law, a leading authoritative source dedicated to the field of fashion law and the business of fashion. Julie’s breakthrough moment at The Fashion Law came when she outed Chanel’s Fall 2012 bracelets, which looked very similar to the work of emerging popular designer, Pamela Love. Julie has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, and her work has been featured in the Huffington Post, the Los Angeles Times, Vogue UK and many others.
We speak with Julie Zerbo about her vision for Fashion Law, the future of the fashion+tech industry as it relates to fashion law and Asia, and what it means for emerging designers in our region and beyond.
Editor: A few years ago, Fordham University pioneered the Fashion Law program. As the Editor and Founder of The Fashion Law, tell us a bit more about what Fashion Law or being a Fashion Lawyer encompasses.
Julie: Well, while Fordham started the program, which has garnered quite a lot of attention for fashion law and really put it on the map so-to-speak in academia, I’m not actually of the belief that “fashion law” is a new field. Lawyers have been practicing intellectual property law, employment law, real estate law, various types of international transactions law, etc. and operating in general counsel positions for quite a while now. For me, fashion law encompasses these various aspects of the law and the nature of the business.
By giving it the title of “fashion law,” it has essentially just been glamorized and marketed as something that didn’t necessarily exist in the past.
Editor: I was told that there are no “new” jobs, per se, in fashion law. What are your thoughts on this? And is this something that will change in coming years?
I suppose I started to answer this already! Are there new jobs in fashion law? Maybe a few. However, the lawyers who I consider to be my mentors and who have been practicing in the field of fashion law for some time now, did not graduate from law school with the dream of being fashion lawyers, and yet, they have ended up in general counsel-type positions for fashion brands. I think the jobs have always been there. Since the 1980′s, the role of general counsel has been more prominent. There may be a few new jobs with the addition of fashion law as a practice area at some firms and as law schools begin to offer courses, but I do not believe that this is a common source of new jobs overall.
Editor: Being a founder for a highly influential blog and the current NY correspondent of Motilo.com, you must be immersed in the fashion + tech industry. What are your thoughts on the current state of the fashion industry as it relates to technology and the web, and how is this changing fashion as a whole, as well as the laws that the fashion industry should be aware of – from the perspective of say a designer or community manager?
The marriage between fashion and technology is moving forward pretty swiftly. I personally believe that Apple taking on two fashion executives (Angela Ahrendts formerly of Burberry and before that, Paul Deneve of YSL) in the past year alone is a sign of where we are headed as an industry. In addition, the fashion startups, which range from Gilt Groupe, Rent the Runway and Moda Operandi to Motilo and even Inverted Edge, are making a significant impact that we simply cannot ignore.
As for how the industry is affected by the influx of technology, it seems everything is a lot faster than ever before. You can see a designer’s collection essentially in real time as it goes down the runway. You can talk about it, share images via the various social media sites, and even pre-order the looks within a week or two. So, this certainly leads to increased brand awareness and allows designers and design houses to connect with a larger audience in a more cost-effective way. In my opinion, it also creates an air of impersonality to fashion that did not exist to this extent before. Along with increased speed naturally comes rapid copying, and copying that includes increased quality. With technology comes this delicate balance between increasing brand awareness and maintaining brand identity, which is especially important for luxury brands.
In terms of laws to be aware of in the realm of e-commerce and fashion/lifestyle blogs, I’d say copyright laws and the resulting protection for original works plays a large role, especially in connection with the expansive use of images, and the corresponding licensing of those images. Whether it is an original ad campaign or editorial or product image or even the original design/print on a garment or accessory, copyright law is in effect (in most cases) and governs the use, sale, and/or reproduction of the image.
Editor: From what I have learnt, the fashion industry in America was created through knocking off designs stolen or observed across the Atlantic. Currently, knock-offs are still allowed in the United States as they are not classified as counterfeits. What are your thoughts on America’s current intellectual property laws or design protection laws (deemed very lax) and the protection it gives to designers and creative alike, and is this something that you think the CFDA or the fashion industry of America will push to change?
You are absolutely right. For the most part, the fashion industry in the US originated with the copying and/or licensing of designs that were created abroad, namely, in France. It wasn’t until later that the US really developed an industry that produces original designs. So, while there is currently so much young design talent that is really putting the American fashion industry on the map, it certainly hasn’t always been this way.
The knock-off vs counterfeit distinction is a tricky one at times. For the most part (and I am really generalizing here!), garments and accessories can be legally copied in the US (assuming they do not bear a copyrighted print or pattern or a separable design element, or a trademark, which itself cannot be copied). These copies are knock-offs and they are perfectly legal in the US – hence the success of stores like Zara, Forever 21 and Nasty Gal. Counterfeits, on the other hand, are copies that contain another’s trademark, which makes the copy illegal, but provides little protection for the actual designs themselves, as that isn’t the aim of trademark law.
Protection in the US for fashion designs is certainly not as strong as it is in the other fashion capitals of the world, namely, London, Paris and Milan. To some extent, though, there is protection available here. For instance, we’ve seen a rise in the utilization of design patents for fashion designs. Celine, Jimmy Choo, Alexander Wang, Stuart Weitzman and Balenciaga, among others, are patenting the ornamental aspects of their designs. This isn’t a type of protection that is realistic for all (as it is a bit of a time-consuming and expensive process), but it is something.
I know that the CFDA has been a big supporter of design legislation because I worked with them on it in conjunction with a lobbyist in the summer of 2011. And since then, the CFDA has done quite a bit to continue to develop initiatives to promote original design and design integrity. Diane and Steven Kolb understand the plight of designers, especially emerging ones, and are really wonderful assets! I think we will get there one day, but as you likely know, the governmental process is slow and every time a new bill is proposed there is a lot of misinformation is put out there. I think the bills we’ve seen recently certainly need some re-working, but I hope for the sake of designers and for the US fashion industry that we can pass something soon because it really is upsetting to see young designers getting copied repeatedly by these big fast fashion retailers.
Editor: Your breakthrough post came when you outed Chanel’s Fall 2012 bracelets, which looked very much like those of emerging popular designer, Pamela Love. Do you think smaller labels or emerging designers are cautious about prosecuting larger fashion houses or mass market retailers when their creative or intellectual property rights have been infringed for fear of being trampled on and crushed by the giants?
Absolutely. Isn’t part of every lawsuit or potential lawsuit a numbers game? Lawsuits are expensive and even if these small designers, the ones that are often targeted, have a legitimate claim, they often don’t have the resources to spend on litigation. They really are small businesses. We see their designs on the red carpet and hear about them in the media, but most commonly, they are operating as a small business and a lawsuit just isn’t in their budget. I have found, though, that high fashion houses are often easier to work with in terms of copies. Chanel released an apology statement within 48 hours after I posted about the Pamela Love similarity. Having said this, Gucci copied an ACRONYM jacket this past season and has yet to “pull” the design or apologize. So, I suppose it varies.
Editor: Aside from being “street” influencers and highly marketable personal media, you gave me a new perspective as to how I viewed fashion bloggers. In a way, your Chanel/ Pamela Love story was like a new-age investigative/community journalism story that broke the case and saved the day.
Thank you. I think there are really some valuable sites out there providing useful tools and services and substantive content. To some extent, bloggers have gotten a bad reputation. They are characterized as one in a million, not terribly skilled, easily replaceable “writers,” if you can even call them writers. However, aside from the thousands and thousands of personal style sites (some of which are actually really wonderful, like the sites of Susie Bubble, Tavi Gevinson, and even Leandra Medine, who is so funny and insightful), there is a different kind of blogger, one that is not just putting together free outfits or going to fashion week. I think blogging is very much a new-age form of journalism, depending on which blogs you read. For me, The Fashion Law, a blog (or a site, as I prefer to call it), is an extension of the classroom. It is a way for me to put some very academic concepts of law into context for myself and others.
Editor: Do you think that bloggers, viewed by many traditional old-school journalists as “noise” or even the reason behind the loss of quality journalism because of the lack of “gatekeepers”, can prove those – for lack of a better word, non-believers – wrong? Where do you see fashion blogging heading?
There is a valid argument that there has been an evolution, for better or worse, in journalism due to the influx of blogs. Because blogs are so easy to start and use, everyone thinks they have a say on fashion and quite often, fashion law. In some ways, I really do think we can prove ourselves as sources of valuable content but there certainly are a lot of blogs that are not helping the cause.
In terms of the future of fashion blogging, it seems that the web or the market in general, actually, is so saturated with personal style blogs, that this trend is on its way out. It was very much a phenomenon where you had to be in the right place at the right time.
Hence, the major success of a few big personal style bloggers, who I believe will continue to be successful because they know how to innovate and provide real content. In this same vein, I think, or better yet, I really hope, that people will begin to look more for substance. Many sites are written with very little context of what is actually going on in the world and without much content that actually makes you think. I think that is what has tainted the blogosphere so much, and I hope this will change in the future. Why not learn something while you are reading about fashion? Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
Editor: Fide Fashion Weeks ended not long ago in Singapore, one of the first shows in Singapore that offers a full fashion week: couture, womenswear, and menswear. What are your views on the future of Asia’s emerging fashion industry? Do you think it will take a form of its own, and if so—what would that be?
I actually began thinking about the emerging fashion industry in Asia when I was working on the fashion design protection legislation a few years ago. For so long, China, in particular, was been characterized by knock-offs and counterfeits and cheap clothing, but
I think that as more and more students from Asia graduate from the top design schools in the world and return to their native countries, Asia will have an unprecedented amount of talent and an enviable pool of talent. We are starting to see that already.
Also, I believe that one highly misunderstood thing about a significant amount of Asian consumers is that they do not have sophisticated taste in fashion, and yet, this is very far from the truth.
As most fashion-conscious places move away from the flashy, logo-covered, seasonal fashions and accessories that have dominated for so long, and look more for quality, this will certainly help emerging Asian designers with impeccable skills and taste to find a market instantly.
In this way and given the great spending power of the Eastern world, I think Asia’s emerging design industry will absolutely stand on its own and eventually rival some of the world’s fashion capitals.
Editor: As Asia’s fashion industry matures, what advice would you give budding emerging designers here?
I suppose that some of the most common problems in terms of emerging designers stem from branding and the legal principles behind that. Trademark your business name before someone else does. Think long and hard about whether you want to use your personal name as your business name, as that could lead to significant complications down the road if you end up selling the brand. Have a solid business plan because being able to design is only half of the battle. And choose your projects and partnerships wisely. It is very difficult now, maybe more than ever, for young designers to focus on their brands and what’s best for the brand because there are so many opportunities to do a diffusion line, or design a capsule for this other company, or license your name to a fast fashion retailer. In the end, it is important to identify the DNA of your brand and really stay in tune with it. Resist the temptation to do too much too fast and too soon.
Editor: Lastly, where do you think we will be seeing Julie Zerbo in the next few years?
From what I can say right now, The Fashion Law is in the best place its ever been. The quality of the readership is truly remarkable. I am often very humbled by the smart, talented, experienced individuals that follow us and read us. That is very much my focus. I am working on a few new projects with my team, which will be very exciting – stay tuned! In the meantime, I hope to continue to connect with young designers, creative directors, casting directors, and models, as that really gives me a more thorough understanding of what the industry entails and how I can be better at my job.
Images courtesy of Dominic Deluque
This article was written for The Thread, on INVERTED EDGE.
Nicole Tan 